Macro vs Micro Universe and what are you doing about it?

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nzmacro
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Post by nzmacro »

Yes we did have a quite a few more forums here, a lot more than what you see now. As Mike said, first off, it takes participation for those to exist.

Now surely a search for microscopy and seeing a site and forums with photographs from under a microscope, should be no surprise ??? Unless you were just after microscope discussions. Maybe I'm missing something there :D

As for the rest, yes we are watching :wink: , you have to remember though, that most of us are macro shooters, so the rest is up to you folks. If we can help, I guarantee we will. :D

Danny.

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Red Seven
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Post by Red Seven »

Much to my delight, the camp idea was picked up again for summer 2006 for six sessions! I already have several “veteran” kids planning to return so they can expand upon their adventures!
Now that's what I can "doing something about it". This is just the kind of thing that is needed to stimulate interest in microscopy and all of the areas of science it lead to and contributes to.

I must say that I think prepared slides are OK but with some help from Ken I made my first trip to the pond a few days ago and what I brought home made the very significant cost of my first scope completely worthwhile! In a single drop of water without practically anything visible to the naked was an entire micro universe! Diatom, paramesium, rotifers, algae of all sorts and something that looked like a miniature turtle with a large shell ripping around doing barrel roles and munching on everthing in site (I think it may have been another type of rotifer but I haven't worked it out yet). There was more creature and other stuff that I will spend many hours observing and learning about. It was an incrediable experience! My wife was wondering why when she called me to say my favorite shows were on TV that I never come out to watch!

As for whether this is a suitable place for a beginners forum...
I guess that is up to the forum owners. If the mission statement describes this as a place for senior microscopists with interest only in advanced areas then maybe myself and others will have to go elsewhere to get our education and it will be left to others to stimulate an interest to more Newbies. However I notice this post has stimulated activity where there wasn't quite so much before. The hits for this link are mounting. Hmmmmm....
Thanks again Ken for the direction on the Pond experience and congrats again Meadster on your contibution to the future of microscopy!

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Post by Ken Ramos »

You are quite welcome there Archie but no need to go elsewhere, except for further info maybe. I prowl the net quite a bit and have found some useful sites but not many. Quite a few are extremely over my head such as the Science Chat Forums. That gang in there will really get over your head and debate everything from the genome to desperate housewives with scholarly aggression. :roll:

Personally, though we do not have a newbies forum, I always enjoy seeing posts from beginners and trying to answer their questions. Like yours for instance, on collecting samples and the basics of using the microscope. Notice I did not say microscopy but using the microscope. I consider microscopy to be the technical aspects of using the microscope, of which I am not to well versed in myself. However what I can see using the microscope, ah... there really lies my interests. :D

As for the Meadster, I commend him highly in his approach to introducing his students to this wonderful and educational pastime. I too had the privialge sometime back to help a Boy Scout Troop (128) in my local area, earn their environmental science merit badge. During the course of instruction, utilizing the microscope was explained, demonstrated, and then hands on use with the instrument after a field trip of collecting specimens for study and observation. We focused mainly on the impact that human actions have on the environment in relation to the specimens collected and what if any we could do to possibly reverse or prevent damage to the fragile ecosystems that were already in place and how with the aid of both the stereomicroscope and the high power scope, we could observe and note the minute changes that these organisms go through when there is an adverse effect on their enviornment. If anyone is interested, I believe it is in the Community and Friends Forum under the "Future of Science" post that I made of the youngsters. A great group of young men I might add and they showed extreme interest towards what I was teaching them and laying aside the fact that their merit badge relied on the course. To me that ment that I had made a positive impact on these young men. They opened their eyes and minds to what I was teaching them, rather than taking the attitude of "oh well lets get this over with so I can get my badge" kind of thing.

Not only did I influence these young men but their scout master too so it seems. He is presently attending an community college and taking a course in Biology and has purchased two microscopes of his own, a high power compound and a stereo. :D
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Post by nzmacro »

So do we want a micro beginners forum. Ken, Red, anyone ???

I thought that was the general idea of what the "Macro and Micro Technique and Technical Discussions" was for, but if that idea works better for everyone for questions and discussing shots, along with techniques, I can't see why not. Tom, Mike, Sue, Ken, thoughts ???

Danny.

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Post by Ken Ramos »

I have been thinking that over Danny but to be blunt, I don't really think so but I am not against it. However Red's suggestion is a good one and he most certainly has a point, no doubt. I look at our members list and then at how many are actively participating. Not a whole lot :(

Lets look at it from Reds point of veiw. He comes in here takes a look around. Likes what he sees but finds it lacking in what he needs. He has joined but sees nothing that he thinks he can be a significant part of or even contribute to and some of it looks pretty technical in those posts. So Red moves on. By Red :(

So now Red is just another name on our list of non participating members. Somehow I believe that is the case with some on that list we now have. We need a personal touch here. How about a New Members General Information for Microscopy and Forums and place it on the index page and within that center have a POC (point of contact) for someone that they can communicate with to answer their questions about the site, its forums or further explanations about forum guidelines or help with online resources and last but not least answers to their questions about basic microscope use and subject matter. Also being new, they can post their images without having to compete with some of our more experienced members. :D

The forum will not be expected to be an active forum like all the rest. It will be a center for new members to use unitl they become acoustomed to the primary forums and it will sit there quietly until it is used off and on or maybe quite regular, who knows? But it won't have to be deleted due to non use or lack of interest. Another thing would be that new members that stay within that particular forum will not be eligable to participate in the Administrators Appreciation Awards until they leave the new members forum and become actively involved in the regular forums. They are there to learn from each other and what they see and experience on this site. They will be free however to make comments and ask questions in all forums and posts. Once having left the sheltered life in the new members area and becoming active in the regular forums, they cannot go back to posting in that area again. {-X

Being from Tennessee originally, I will volunteer my services as the POC for the New Members General Information for Microscopy and Forums. Hows that? :D
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Post by nzmacro »

Ken, you are already doing a remarkable job M8t. This site could not ask for a better person in that area and thats the truth. You and Sue make this place work and we will go by whatever you decide :D :wink: . I ain't gonna cross ya :wink:

All the best and one very interesting read through this thread.

Danny.

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Red Seven
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Post by Red Seven »

I really think it's a good idea to give some thought to what is the overall purpose of the forums but if you all decide that there is a place here for members at all levels of expertise then I say go for it. Keep it simple. Just one forum that invites and encourages those just taking up the hobby or who are relatively new to it and provides an opportunity for the more experienced to share their knowledge and get to show off a bit :D
Another suggestion for a forum name might be "Microscopy 101". Nothing overly technical or intimidating sounding.
I have lots of questions to get you started.
I would love to see discussions on things like "identifying organisms", areas of explorations such as biological, minerals, rocks, gems, etc; equiment to get you started, the basics of stains, and lots more.
By the way, I hope you guys keep alive the idea of a Project for advance members as well. A coordinated effort to study some particular area as a group. I know ameteur astronomers often make important contributions to science...maybe you guys could make a few new discoveries or advance the knowledge base in some meaningful way. I'd love to watch this and maybe someday be knowledgable enough to contribute myself...

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Post by Ken Ramos »

Red Seven wrote:
I would love to see discussions on things like "identifying organisms", areas of explorations such as biological, minerals, rocks, gems, etc; equiment to get you started, the basics of stains, and lots more.
Discussions on the identification of organisms happens in the regular forum from time to time. However most of the ID's are made using the Protist Information Server and the Astro Biology Site provided by NASA. Still though there are some organisms that are not covered by these two sites and it does get interesting sometimes in the identifications of these things. For beginners, they could post their images in the new forum and simply ask what they maybe or recieve directions to where they might find out. I prefer the latter. You learn nothing if someone else does it for you.

Rocks, Gems, and Minerals. I live where there is an abundance of all three. Why I am not interested in them beats me. Not to long ago an avid rock hound here found an emerald the size of a softball. I forgot how many carets they said it would be after being cut but it was an awesome amount! :shock:

We have not had but one or two members show up with an interest in these type things. Maybe with a new members forum there might be more.

Stains. The only ones I know of are the ones on my shirt after a Bar B Q of good o'l pork ribs and a bowl of tater salad...YUM! :D Again no one here has attempted or entertained such a thing as staining. Stains are available through various biological supply houses and staining is a technique more for the advanced microscopist to explain and show.

So now after being so negative in my resoponse to the above, you may ask yourself..."well what good is this guy going to be in a new members forum?" :lol:

I can direct you to various resources that will help you along with your new hobby or interest in using the microscope. I can provide you with basic instruction to get you started. Give some advice on how to avoid some of the pitfalls I have experienced in the past saving you some money and time in purchasing new equipment. I have a taste for top dollar stuff but I can direct you to a place where one can purchase a very good student microscope for just under $200.00 that will provide excellent service for the beginner and they, with a little bit of smarts, could take acceptable photographs through the eyepiece of the instrument. This is one scope I would recommend for those who have not purchased a scope yet but do not want to drop over several hundred or a thousand dollars into one and find out the hobby is not for them. :)

Now how can I recommend that little microscope so highly? Because when I began to renew my interests in microscopic study after a few decades of being absent from it, it was my first scope. :D Although it has now been sold and I have moved on to a Zeiss Axiostar, I for some reason or another, miss that little scope. :(

Red also stated:
I know ameteur astronomers often make important contributions to science...maybe you guys could make a few new discoveries or advance the knowledge base in some meaningful way. I'd love to watch this and maybe someday be knowledgable enough to contribute myself...
You just cut to the bone Red. I too would like to see something like this come about. I have recently began the study of Myxomycetes or Plamodial Slime Molds. This is one of those fields where the amateur microscopist and field biologist can make a signficant contribution. The University of Arkansas heads up the program for Myxomycete studies. Very little is known about myxomycetes and even more mysterious is the plasmodium or the giant multinucleate amoeba formed by the fusion of just two myxamoeba. I used to have a "pet amoeba," it was about 30mm in size and lived in a petri dish for about two or three months and it did try to crawl out occasionally. It did not eat much, was well behaved and did not bark at night. It however did eventually die. :(

Need more information Red? Look at the top of the page and click on Amateur Microscopy Resources. There is tons of information in there, all provided by our members research labors and love, of and for the microscope! :o :D
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Post by Ken Ramos »

Well though I somewhat did not think that a newbies forum was needed, I did state that I was not against it and have now posted my suggestion for the new forum. So as Danny asked, "what do the rest of you think?" Would you like to see the title of the new forum worded differently if we decide on having it? How many of you think it is a worthwhile venture? As for the projects that Red mentioned and I believe Meadster and Bill brought up also. Would anyone be interested in working in a Research Forum. Think heavily on this one. It is not to be taken lightly. Because it will be a group effort requiring the devotion of time, study, and cooporation towards the goal that is to be set by the members involved, however many that may be. :wink:

So get ready, terms are coming up! :lol:
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Post by Red Seven »

So now after being so negative in my resoponse to the above, you may ask yourself..."well what good is this guy going to be in a new members forum?"
Quite the opposite Ken!
That little post just provided me with some good info. For example I've already made a trip to the Protist Information Server http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/Protist_menuE.html and bookmarked it for futher reference. I think I've also found the Nasa Astrobiology site although I haven't identified exactly where within the site to find the database with ID information.
For beginners, they could post their images in the new forum...
This however is a bit of a problem at the moment as I don't have the setup to take images yet (hopefully in time) and this will likely be the case with many beginners. Too bad though because I've looked at some stuff that I would have loved to have photographed! In fact that is another thing I have to figure out...all about what is required to take images and where is the best place for the beginner to begin...I know of course that you can either take images through a trinocular tube on a trinocular head or through an eyepiece the former being preferable. I don't know if I can use my Canon G2 Powershot to do this and if it is possible with my current Lieca ATC 2000. If so what adapters and other equipment do I need and if not how to proceed as the budget allows and I have earned and justified the purchases by a continued committment to the hobby?

Rocks and minerals I think are also very facinating and to have a scope and at least not do a bit of exploration in this area would seem to be a missed opportunity to me but of course there are only so many hours in a day and so many resources. Speaking of hours in a day I'm supposed to be working on some book keeping to finalize my tax preparation so I better sign of for a little while. It's quite annoying when reality interfers with my pleasure pursuits! :lol:

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Post by Ken Ramos »

Red wrote:
This however is a bit of a problem at the moment as I don't have the setup to take images yet (hopefully in time) and this will likely be the case with many beginners. Too bad though because I've looked at some stuff that I would have loved to have photographed! In fact that is another thing I have to figure out...all about what is required to take images and where is the best place for the beginner to begin...I know of course that you can either take images through a trinocular tube on a trinocular head or through an eyepiece the former being preferable.
Red also wrote:
so what adapters and other equipment do I need and if not how to proceed as the budget allows
This camera and adapter set up was under $200.00! :o The adapter can be ordered from Orion Binoculars and Telescopes www.OrionTelescopes.com or call 1-800-447-1001 if the site is temporarily down. It was the last I checked. :-k The adapter has since fallen in price, it was $34.95 and is now $27.95. The G2 may not work with it. I recommend the Sony DSC Series cameras or the Fuji FinePix consumer type cameras, not the pro-sumers or professional models with this adapter. It is made for small digitals. The Nikon CoolPix series and the smaller Canon Powershots should also work very well with it. The other adapters you may see offered will cost you big bucks and the relay optics envolved in them are not all that good. I had the adapter from Zeiss to adapt my G5 to the Axiostar...what a waste of money! Over $500.00 I spent on that thing, not counting the $599.00 for the G5 itself! :x I bought the Orion SteadyPix for $34.95, the Fuji camera for $159.00, and a Zeiss 10X eyepiece for the photo tube $114.00, total cost = $307.95 The whole set up for less than half of the cost of one single worthless adapter! :roll:



See what I mean here :D
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wilash
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Post by wilash »

Why telescopes are more popular than microscopes:

1. You can't peep in your neighbors window with a microscope.

2. People live in places where there is nothing small.

3. Al Nagler does not make microscope eyepieces (only an amateur astronomer will understand that).

4. Most folks don't really want to know what is in their water.

5. Stars are more romantic than bugs and slime.

But seriously, it is interesting. Perhaps since microscopes are associated with biology and medicine, there is a fear factor - why look at germs. Space is after all percieved as clean.

Both fields are populated by, for want of a better word, geeks. Perhaps the large Star Trek viewership tips the balance since there is little media attention given to traveling the micro-world - The Incredible Voyage is the only thing that comes to mind.
Will

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Post by wilash »

Sorry, that would be the Fantastic Voyage. But even that was connected to illness.
Will

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Post by nzmacro »

:D :lol: :D You crack me up Will :D , can't think of any better reasons M8t :D :D

Danny.

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Post by wilash »

Danny, I am surprised. I can think of at least one other reason:

6. We are a very select group of individuals and we don't want just anyone joining. :wink:
Will

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