Macro vs Micro Universe and what are you doing about it?

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Red Seven
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Macro vs Micro Universe and what are you doing about it?

Post by Red Seven »

OK, so I decide it's time to follow through on my long time curiousity about microscopy and so what is the first thing I figure I have to do? Get educated. Learn a little about what there is to learn, what I need for toys...whoops, I mean advanced scientific educational equipment, etc. So first stop, the bookstore.
After visiting 3 major bookstores I am dumbfounded! NOT A SINGLE BOOK ON MICROSCOPES OR MICROSCOPY!!! So I figured I'd settle for a good magazine. NONE!!!
What's wrong with this picture??? No pun intended *OK, yes it was.
If I wanted books or magazines on the macro universe or Astronomy, sky watching or whatever you choose to call it the choices were huge. At least a dozen choices just in magazines and lets not get started on the books. So why nothing on microscopy?
My best primary guess is that it's more likely that someone will look outside and see a star or planet and get curious than to look down and see a paramecium doing the backstroke, be blown away and take up microscopy. What do you think?
So the next question is what are you doing about it? Do you encourage others with your hobby? Invite them to have get together and have a look down the tube?
Sadly the only man I knew who was interested and knowledgable about microscopy passed away last year before I was ready to pursue it. I already missed him and now I miss him just a little bit more. I don't think Jack believed in Heaven but if he did he didn't believe it was up in the sky but right down here around him in the pond, in the yard and in his own body. Is microscopy a dieing art? What do you think? Do you think it should be promoted more? If so , how?
Thanks...

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Ken Ramos
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Post by Ken Ramos »

I know exactly what you mean. :? I too traveled down the same road, looking for literature on microcopy and found little if any. Astronomy, yes! Tons of astronomy but no microscopy. The fact that something like Astronomy is so prevelant is the fact that the heavens above stand out. I mean you cannot help but to walk out at night and gaze in wonder at the twinkling points of light in the cosmos. I have a sort of quiet love for astronomy but I prefer microscopy because I can interact with what I am observing, i.e. ever touch a star? Hot isn't it. :lol:

Microscopy on the otherhand, the subjects are not visible to the unaided eye and therefore ignored. I mean which would you notice, being hit with a micro meteor or a 500 ton hot rock? :lol: Macro or macroscopy almost the same way. A lot of people notice the subjects and may even ponder them a little but fail to see the intricate beauty of that which they have just seen.

Do I personally promote microscopy? My coworkers wish I would shut the h... up about it and quit bringing photographs to work showing them something that they have only seen in sci-fi movies. :lol:
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Post by nzmacro »

Many years ago, I had to order books on microscopes from overseas. Unseen and wasn't sure what I was getting at all :D One of those cost at the time, 2 weeks wages. Amazon now makes this a lot easier. Kodak also had a couple of excellent technical books on it.

When we looked at the idea of a forum for this, we hunted around for forums on microscopy. Macro we already knew there were other forums around and good ones at that. So a micro forum was what this all started out at really. Macro was included because of the interest and we thought it might add more to the site, just in case the micro area didn't take off. Well look at it now. :D

The micro forum down there is just incredible and the members that we have and the work we see, have made it all worth while. The talent here is just incredible to see.

So I guess this all started because of a lack of a good format microscopy forum. And so here we are. No books, but the Technique forum there is where a lot of folks have learnt and asked questions. There is no substitute than to have one on one discussions on something. The experts here just leave me in awe to be honest.

All the best and as for books, Amazon is a great place to find them IMHO :wink:

Danny.

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Ken Ramos
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Post by Ken Ramos »

That avatar is killer Danny :!:
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Red Seven
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Post by Red Seven »

Another great place to look for books is www.abebooks.com. They are only used books listed by thousands of booksellers. I found my copy of Exploring With the Microscope: A Book of Discovery Bookseller - Nachtigall, Werner for $27.50US. It is a used but remaindered unread copy. All other copies I came across were in the area of $85 -$100US.

Question....I see scopes on Ebay and other places such as the Meiji EMZ stereoscopes where they are selling the unit without the stand. How hard do you think it would be to pick up a used stand for something like this?

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Post by Ken Ramos »

Red Seven asked:
Question....I see scopes on Ebay and other places such as the Meiji EMZ stereoscopes where they are selling the unit without the stand. How hard do you think it would be to pick up a used stand for something like this?
It probably would not be hard to find a used stand somewhere on the web. A lot of sites sell used microscopes and stands or the entire scope. I bought a Meiji EMZ 13TR complete, new for $2,160.00 So you figure a stand is going to cost a fair portion of that price. You might try Mel Soble Microscopes (I think?) in New York. They deal in lots of used stuff or try www.meijitechno.com and see what they have. :D
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Dembowski
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Post by Dembowski »

I bumped into this very situation (mostly the lack of human contact) when I renewed my interest in the micro world about a year or so ago. I have long been active in several astronomical organizations so when I finally acquired a “real” microscope I began searching for equivalent micro-groups and found virtually nothing. Oh, there are a few forums and discussion groups, but nothing that even comes close to the organizations that the astro-folks have formed; and I have spent an awful lot of think-time trying to figure out why.

There must be some basic initial interest in microscopy. I’ll wager that there are just as many department store microscopes sold as there are telescopes, and that the microscopes are no better or worse than the telescopes. The same goes for the next quality-level of instruments and the prices in each case are about the same. My point is - the initial interest seems to be there, and the equipment seems to be there - why didn’t the micro-folks evolve into serious communal amateurs the way the astro-folks did?

Most of my astro-life involves an organization called The Association of Lunar & Planetary Observers (ALPO), and it is typical of most such groups. It is divided into observing sections, one for each object (Moon, Mars, Jupiter) or class of objects (comets, asteroids) in the Solar System. Each section has a coordinator to whom the members send their observations (photos, sketches, and associated notes). These observations can be either very general in nature or related to a specific project that the section is working on at the time. (Astro-amateurs love working on projects.)

The coordinators mentor the members, catalog what they receive, and write regular reports and articles for a quarterly journal. Some sections have enough activity to warrant a more informal monthly newsletter. Here, if you haven’t already lost interest, is the newsletter for the Lunar Section. I realize that most of you are not much interested in the Moon. This is just to give you a feel for what is out there, astronomically.
http://www.zone-vx.com/TLO200603.pdf

Now, substitute words like Diatom and Amoeba for the astronomical terms above. If there were an online microscopy club that looked like that, would you join? If not, why not? I would very much like to see your comments because I think they would go a long way in answering the question in my mind.

Thanks or your patience with a rather lengthy post (assuming you got this far).
Bill Dembowski
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nzmacro
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Post by nzmacro »

Interesting Bill. Although I'm more into macro, microscopy and astronomy also hold an interest.I often look at the NASA sites and even venture into a few astronomy forums. This one I've taken an interest in lately. They have a great art gallery with generated graphics. Its something that holds a great interest.

http://www.cloudynights.com/index.php

All the best bill and there are probably a few more here as well.

Danny.

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Post by Ken Ramos »

You know Bill you have brought up a question that I often asked myself, why are there not groups of individuals who share a common interest microscopy being formed? I am by no means an expert on amoebae. I read a lot about them and go as far to culture them in my home lab for study and observation but I could learn a lot more if there were others with whom I could compare and share notes and obsevervations with. Now I use amoebae as an example but there are many other life forms that capture my attention also. Projects! I love projects. Working towards a common goal with a group can be extremely fun and very educational for all concerned with it. :D

I am very happy to be a part of this website and its forums. :D It is quite evident how much I enjoy them by the quantity of the posts that I have made and responded to. This site has been quite a blessing because I have a chance to correspond with individuals of like interests and they too have opened new doors of interests for me. I am not a photographer nor do I really have a deep interest for photography but however I do enjoy being able to photograph the subjects I run across in my studies and the members here have really been a blessing in helping me to improve and work towards improving the quality of the images I take. In scientific notation accuracy both in notes and observations go hand in hand with photo documentation too, in my opinion.

Would I join a site dealing more with the subjects observed through the microscope and working on projects envolved with them? The answer is most definitely. :D

It was an honor for me to have been asked to be a moderator and now a site administrator here and I could not think of, not being a part of this wonderful community and associating with its equally wonderful and friendly members :D but I would like to see and become involved in something more along the lines of what you amateur astronomers have put together, dealing with the science involved in the subjects seen through our instruments. :D

Many years ago, I had a deep love for astronomy and I have owned several telescopes in the past. At that time however, groups of amateurs to associate with were scarce at best and I still have sort of a quiet love for astronomy :D
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Post by nzmacro »

Heck, if this is the case, then if there is any way we could promote such a venture with using this site or any other ideas, then fire away. I have a lot more space on another similar site that can be free to use. Another type of forum could be setup on that and administrated by those that know the subject far better than I ever will.

So keep the ideas coming if you have them :wink:

Danny.

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Post by Ken Ramos »

A seperate forum or maybe even a satellite site have crossed my mind Danny but how many of our members would be avid participants of such. There are a number of science sites that are enjoying great success, such as Science Chat Forum (SCF) and biology on-line. org but they too are not along the lines of what Bill is enjoying with his associates in astronomy.

Maybe put it up to a vote among our members as to whether or not to create a "Microscopy Research Forum," or site, focusing (pun intended) more on the subject and not the technical aspects of photography involved in presenting the subject.

Maybe it would even bring us closer together as a community with members who are not avid participants of our present forums. :-k
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Post by Ken Ramos »

Another word of note. When I first joined this site, having it recommended by another member, I was expecting something along the lines of what Bill has mentioned. Not that I am disappointed in it not being so but another thought has just come to mind. This site is about Photography not Science. So, I am thinking maybe a sister site or spin off from this one? :-k
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Post by Charles Krebs »

I haven't given this much thought (perhaps I should before posting anything :roll: ) but maybe a piece of this puzzle has something to do with the "universality" of the subject matter. People from all over the globe can look at the exact same sun, moon, planets, galaxies, stars, and so on. They can all go back day after day, and study the exact same objects and phenomenon. I can see where this would foster more communal conversations, comparisons and efforts.

By contrast, a microscopist is working in a small world only he/she can see. If you are working with live subject matter it can be quite ephemeral.

If astonomy presented each participant with a different set of planets and stars to look at, things might be different.

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Post by Dembowski »

This has occurred to me too, and it is certainly a valid factor; but I haven’t decided if it is a major factor. I participate in a Bird FeederWatch program for Cornell University. The birds I see and report on are not the exact same birds that others watch, and yet we all contribute to a common pool of knowledge. I understand that there are similar programs (not at necessarily at Cornell) that report on frogs and various species of plants.

Could there be a parallel study in the micro-world? We live in areas that vary widely and so our local ponds and streams are quite different in the life they support. But how about more common ground? Wouldn’t it be interesting to compare the micro-critters we find in shopping malls that have controlled environments? I don’t know. I’m not so much arguing for such an organization as I am trying to figure out why there doesn’t seem to be one … and I’m just thinking out loud.
Bill Dembowski
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Post by Ken Ramos »

Bill wrote:
I’m not so much arguing for such an organization as I am trying to figure out why there doesn’t seem to be one …
Maybe it is our society these days Bill. It seems to me that there are very few of us left who actually care anymore about broadening our understanding of the natural world around us and then there may be those of us who fear that they cannot begin to comprehend those things that we endevor to understand and so leave them to those in the more learned professions to be concerned about.

Personally I find humanity to be disgusting in the way that it lives and acts these days but this is not the type of forum in which to air such views. Someone once said; "the whole world has gone to hell, it just ain't caught fire yet." So what has any of that got to do with there not being any groups oriented towards microbiology or any other organization that is oriented towards learning outside of a classroom? I don't know Bill and I wish I had a more definitive answer but I think the problem may begin with a nice comfortable chair in ones living room and picking up the remote control. :|
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